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153 Fish
Problems with Church Father’s Explanations
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Brief Summary
Why 153
Fish in John 21:11 ?
Sections :
Introduction
Church
Fathers : Sts. Jerome, Augustine, Gregory the Great,
Cyril A.
No
Reason ?
Why Church Fathers’ Answers Could Not Be John’s
Problems
with Square Root of 3 Answer
Context
Points to the Answer : An Explanation That Works
Archimedes
: Context of Time and Place
Greeks
and Wisdom
Fish
Calculating
the Measure of the Fish
John’s
Purpose
Why
Church Fathers Did Not (could not?) Give John’s Idea
Conclusion
No Reason ?
Some have said, that there was no reason at all for
John to note that it was 153 fish. No reason other
than it just happened that way. While a lot of
things are possible, that explanation seems very
unlikely.
Writing on animal skin or parchment John uses his
limited and precious space to note this detail of
153 large fish. And he does this even while stating
that he omitted many other details. See John
20:30.
He must have had a reason to include the detail of
153 fish. The fact that the church fathers searched
for some meaning to explain the number 153 suggests
that they knew that there must be some meaning that
John attached to it.
St. Augustine
states :
“ ... but the definite number of a 153; and of
the reason of this number we must now, with the
Lord’s help, give some account.”
(See
St Augustine,
Tractate 122 (John 20:30-21:11), section 8)
St. Augustine knew that there must be some reason
why John included this peculiar detail of “153”
fish.
His invocation for “the Lord’s help” seems to
indicate that he believed the answer was not obvious
and only with difficulty, and only with the Lord’s
help, would a person be able to determine its
“hidden” meaning.
St. Augustine,
“Ignorance of numbers, too, prevents us from
understanding things that are set down in
Scripture in a figurative and mystical way.”
On Christian Doctrine (Book
2.16.25)]
Saint Augustine,
“As to the reasons, indeed, why these
numbers are so put in the Holy Scriptures,
other people may trace out other reasons ...
[than] those which I have given ...
but there is no one surely so foolish or so
absurd as to contend that they are so put in
the Scriptures for no purpose at all, and
that there are no mystical reasons why those
numbers are there mentioned.”
The Trinity (4.6.10)
Father William Most writes,
“These are the deeper philosophical and
theological foundations of Augustine’s
respect for the truths of number. …
Though he may not always find the reasons of
fittingness ...
which Providence had in mind in placing each
number in Scripture, yet he is sure they are
there.”
(The
Scriptural Basis of St. Augustine's
Arithmology)
Why Church Fathers’ Answers Could Not Be John’s
Problems with St. Jerome’s Idea
Jerome wrote that Oppian’s Halieutica lists a total
of 153 types of fish. This number of species is
supposed to represent all the nations, and so thus
the Gospel is for people of every nation.
However, Wikipedia states:
“Jerome, for example, wrote that Oppian’s
Halieutica listed 153 species of fish,
although this could not have been the
intended meaning of the Gospel writer
because Oppian composed Halieutica after the
Gospel text was written, and at any rate
never gave a list of fish species that
clearly adds up to 153.”
See
Wikipedia,
and sources
two
and
three
St. John could not have been using “information”
that would not be made available until the time of
Jerome or even Oppian.
In order to defend the position that John intended
this connection to 153 a person would have to
maintain that this “knowledge” of the number of
species of fish was known at John’s time.
Further, it would have to be so widely known that
John could safely assume his readers already knew
it.
No one has been able to demonstrate that anyone
“knew” there were 153 species of fish prior to
Jerome’s assertion. It seems very difficult to
believe that this “information” was so wide spread
in John’s time that he could just assume everyone
knew it.
Therefore, it seems impossible for Jerome’s idea to
have been John’s. John could not have expected his
readers to know he had intended Jerome’s association
of 153 with the supposed number of species of fish.
See links below for more
Why Church Fathers’ Answers
Could Not Be John’s , part 2
A Message with Little Gain ?
A Communication Failure by
John ?
Were the Father’s Wrong
?
Mixing the Metaphors
: Net Not Tearing = Unity ???
Parallels in John’s
Gospel
Print
Free Pamphlet - -
Brief Summary
Why 153
Fish in John 21:11 ?
Sections :
Introduction
Church
Fathers : Sts. Jerome, Augustine, Gregory the Great,
Cyril A.
No
Reason ?
Why Church Fathers’ Answers Could Not Be John’s
Problems
with Square Root of 3 Answer
Context
Points to the Answer : An Explanation That Works
Archimedes
: Context of Time and Place
Greeks
and Wisdom
Fish
Calculating
the Measure of the Fish
John’s
Purpose
Why
Church Fathers Did Not (could not?) Give John’s Idea
Conclusion
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